Euth。 Deceit clearly on the side of wrong。
Soc。 Well； and chicanery＇27＇ or mischief of any sort？
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＇27＇ Reading ｛to kakourgein｝ （= furari； Sturz）； al。 ｛kleptein｝； Stob。
Euth。 That too。
Soc。 And the enslavement of free…born men？＇28＇
＇28＇ Or； 〃the kidnapping of men into slavery。〃 ｛to andrapodizesthai｝ =
the reduction of a free…born man to a state of slavery。 Slavery itself
（｛douleia｝） being regarded as the normal condition of a certain
portion of the human race and not in itself immoral。
Euth。 That too。
Soc。 And we cannot allow any of these to lie on the R side of the
account； to the side of right and justice； can we； Euthydemus？
It would be monstrous （he replied）。
Soc。 Very good。 But supposing a man to be elected general； and he
succeeds in enslaving an unjust； wicked； and hostile state； are we to say
that he is doing wrong？
Euth。 By no means。
Soc。 Shall we not admit that he is doing what is right？
Euth。 Certainly。
Soc。 Again； suppose he deceives the foe while at war with them？
Euth。 That would be all fair and right also。
Soc。 Or steals and pillages their property？ would he not be doing what
is right？
Euth。 Certainly； when you began I thought you were limiting the
question to the case of friends。
Soc。 So then everything which we set down on the side of Wrong will
now have to be placed to the credit of Right？
Euth。 Apparently。
Soc。 Very well then； let us so place them； and please； let us make a
new definitionthat while it is right to do such things to a foe； it is wrong
to do them to a friend； but in dealing with the latter it behoves us to be as
straightforward as possible。＇29＇
＇29＇ Or； 〃an absolutely straightforward course is necessary。〃
I quite assent （replied Euthydemus）。
So far so good （remarked Socrates）； but if a general； seeing his troops
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demoralised； were to invent a tale to the effect that reinforcements were
coming； and by means of this false statement should revive the courage of
his men； to which of the two accounts shall we place that act of fraud？＇30＇
＇30＇ Cf。 〃Hell。〃 IV。 iii。 10； 〃Cyrop。〃 I。 vi。 31。
On the side of right； to my notion （he replied）。
Soc。 Or again； if a man chanced to have a son ill and in need of
medicine； which the child refused to take； and supposing the father by an
act of deceit to administer it under the guise of something nice to eat； and
by service of that lie to restore the boy to health； to which account shall we
set down this fraud？
Euth。 In my judgment it too should be placed to the same account。
Soc。 Well； supposing you have a friend in deplorably low spirits； and
you are afraid he will make away with himselfaccordingly you rob him
of his knife or other such instrument： to which side ought we to set the
theft？
Euth。 That too must surely be placed to the score of right behaviour。
Soc。 I understand you to say that a straightforward course is not in
every case to be pursued even in dealing with friends？
Heaven forbid！ （the youth exclaimed）。 If you will allow me； I rescind
my former statement。＇31＇
＇31＇ See above； I。 ii。 44 （｛anatithemai｝）。
Soc。 Allow you！ Of course you mayanything rather than make a false
entry on our lists。 。 。 。 But there is just another point we ought not to leave
uninvestigated。 Let us take the case of deceiving a friend to his detriment：
which is the more wrongfulto do so voluntarily or unintentionally？
Euth。 Really； Socrates； I have ceased to believe in my own answers；
for all my former admissions and conceptions seem to me other than I first
supposed them。＇32＇ Still； if I may hazard one more opinion； the intentional
deceiver； I should say； is worse than the involuntary。
＇32＇ Or； 〃all my original positions seem to me now other than I first
conceived them〃； or； 〃everything I first asserted seems now to be
twisted topsy…turvy。〃
Soc。 And is it your opinion that there is a lore and science of Right and
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Justice just as there is of letters and grammar？＇33＇
＇33＇ ｛mathesis kai episteme tou dikaiou｝a doctrine and a knowledge
of the Just。
Euth。 That is my opinion。
Soc。 And which should you say was more a man of letters＇34＇he who
intentionally misspells or misreads； or he who does so unconsciously？
＇34＇ Or； 〃more grammatical〃； 〃the better grammarian。〃
Euth。 He who does so intentionally； I should say； because he can spell
or read correctly whenever he chooses。
Soc。 Then the voluntary misspeller may be a lettered person； but the
involuntary offender is an illiterate？＇35＇
＇35＇ Or； 〃In fact； he who sins against the lore of grammer
intentionally may be a good grammarian and a man of letters； but he
who does so involuntarily is illiterate and a bad grammarian？〃
Euth。 True； he must be。 I do not see how to escape from that
conclusion。
Soc。 And which of the two knows what is righthe who intentionally
lies and deceives； or he who lies and deceives unconsciously？＇36＇
＇36＇ Or； Soc。 And does he who lies and deceives with intent know
what is right rather than he who does either or both unconsciously？
Euth。 Clearly he does。
Euth。 The intentional and conscious liar clearly。
Soc。 Well then； your statement is this： on the one hand； the man who
has the knowledge of letters is more lettered than he who has no such
knowledge？＇37＇
＇37＇ Or； Soc。 It is a fair inference； is it not； that he who has the
｛episteme｝ of grammar is more grammatical than he who has no such
｛episteme｝？
Euth。 Yes。
Soc。 And he who has the ｛episteme｝ of things rightful is more
righteous than he who lacks the ｛episteme｝？ See Plat。 〃Hipp。 min。〃；
Arist。 〃Eth。 Eud。〃 VI。 v。 7。
Euth。 Yes。
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Soc。 And； on the other； he who has the knowledge of what is right is
more righteous than he who lacks that knowledge？
Euth。 I suppose it is； but for the life of me I cannot make head or tail of
my own admission。＇38＇
＇38＇ Lit。 〃Apparently； but I appear to myself to be saying this also；
heaven knows how。〃 See Jowett； 〃Plato；〃 ii。 p。 416 （ed。 2）。
Soc。 Well （look at it like this）。 Suppose a man to be anxious to speak
the truth； but he is never able to hold the same language about a thing for
two minutes together。 First he says： 〃The road is towards the east；〃 and
then he says； 〃No； it's towards the west〃； or； running up a column of
figures； now he makes the product this； and again he makes it that； now
more； now lesswhat do you think of such a man？
Euth。 Heaven help us！ clearly he does not know what he thought he
knew。
Soc。 And you know the appellation given to certain people
〃slavish；〃＇39＇ or； 〃little better than a slave？〃
＇39＇ ｛andropododeis｝； which has the connotation of mental dulness；
and a low order of intellect； cf。 〃boorish；' 〃rustic；〃 〃loutish；〃
（〃pariah；〃 conceivably）。 〃Slavish；〃 〃servile；〃 with us connote moral
rather than intellectual deficiency； I suppose。 Hence it is impossible
to preserve the humour of the Socratic argument。 See Newman； op。
cit。 i。 107。
Euth。 I do。
Soc。 Is it a term suggestive of the wisdom or the ignorance of those to
whom it is applied？
Euth。 Clearly of their ignorance。
Soc。 Ignorance； for instance； of smithying？
Euth。 No； certainly not。
Soc。 Then possibly ignorance of carpentering？
Euth。 No； nor yet ignorance of carpentering。
Soc。 Well； ignorance of shoemaking？
Euth。 No； nor ignorance of any of these： rather the reverse； for the
majority of those who do know just these matters are 〃little better than
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slaves。〃
Soc。 You mean it is a title particularly to those who are ignorant of the
beautiful； the good； the just？＇40＇
＇40＇ Cf。 Goethe's 〃Im Ganzen Guten Schonen resolut zu leben。〃
It is； in my opinion （he replied）。
Soc。 Then we must in every way strain every nerve to avoid the
imputation of being slaves？
Euth。 Nay； Socrates； by all that is holy； I did flatter myself that at any
rate I was a student of philosophy； and on the right road to be taught
everything essential to one who would fain make beauty and goodness his
pursuit。＇41＇ So that now you may well imagine my despair when； for all
my pains expended； I cannot even answer th
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